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WebRing Managers Community

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WebRing Managers WebRing presents the WebRing Managers Forum, a place for WebRing Managers to discuss ideas, ethics, tactics, etc. This Forum is for WebRing discussion only and is closely moderated.
 

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ToS - 01/05/2009
Be careful. Can you prevent sites with material you don't like? Sure. Can you prevent sites that are ok but which link to material you don't like? Maybe. Can you prevent sites that are ok but which link to sites that link to material you don't like. Probably not.

You can't stop the link chain from getting someplace you don't want. The net is so interconnected that eventually you can get somewhere you don't like. So be careful how you set your standards. Remember, every site that links to Google Search can get to lots of places you don't like and do it very fast.

On the internet everything is connected to everything. It is not a question of whether your site connects to a porn site. It is only a question of how many hops it takes to get there.

James S. Huggins

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Replied - 01/05/2009
I agree that you can only go so far. The problem is that these portals are deliberately linked to porn. When they are set up, the purpose is to lure people to porn. It works. It's the subject matter of some sites. If you have a site on your ring that has artistic nudes, and it has a banner that belongs to a porn site, that's a "storefront" for porn. Some sites with artistic nudes don't do this. I have spent a lot of time looking at links on sites. It takes a lot of looking to get to porn from there. It would take a lot of looking to get to porn from my site. Perhaps if the site on the ring directly has a link to porn, that's enough that it violates ToS. Some kind of standard is necessary. That's why the ToS has that language. While I don't agree, some people think that just the artistic nudes violate ToS. My response to that is that in that case, you just condemned sculptures like Michelangelo's David, which the art world accepts as legitimate art. I personally want any sites in my rings with artistic nudes to have quality. When it's just a hack image, so I am told, it tends to arouse. Men who view the images tell me so; I don't personally find them arousing, perhaps only distasteful. The ToS does have a catchall term for the distasteful, so you have to be careful there. My conclusion has been that if the site links directly to porn, it doesn't follow ToS.




Replied - 01/05/2009
Two other thoughts.

Suppose that an artistic nude has a banner for a porn site. The porn site has a different domain name from the artistic nude site. Theoretically, that means the site itself is "clean" of ToS violations. But if the purpose of the site is to lead to porn, and it's just a front, then it's not clean. Most of the time, the owners of these domains are the same. I would then hold that the porn is on the "same site". Getting a different domain name is trivial. It's a subterfuge.

And I have to keep in mind that you can get malware from many porn sites. In fact, a favorite place to pick it up is porn sites set up for the purpose of putting malware on people's computers.

I got into one porn site once that gave me a new popup every few seconds. They popped up faster than I could close them. By the time I rebooted my computer to get out of it, I had about 99 popups.

We just went through an episode of virus on computer. It took two days to get the computer clean. That meant it cost the company hundreds of dollars, probably around a thousand. I don't want to do that to any of my surfers.




Replied - 01/05/2009
Two other thoughts.

Suppose that an artistic nude has a banner for a porn site. The porn site has a different domain name from the artistic nude site. Theoretically, that means the site itself is "clean" of ToS violations. But if the purpose of the site is to lead to porn, and it's just a front, then it's not clean. Most of the time, the owners of these domains are the same. I would then hold that the porn is on the "same site". Getting a different domain name is trivial. It's a subterfuge.

And I have to keep in mind that you can get malware from many porn sites. In fact, a favorite place to pick it up is porn sites set up for the purpose of putting malware on people's computers.

I got into one porn site once that gave me a new popup every few seconds. They popped up faster than I could close them. By the time I rebooted my computer to get out of it, I had about 99 popups.

We just went through an episode of virus on computer. It took two days to get the computer clean. That meant it cost the company hundreds of dollars, probably around a thousand. I don't want to do that to any of my surfers.

= = = = = = = = =

Yes. I suspect that you will need to convey your INTENT and rely on your GOOD JUDGEMENT for your screening. I seriously doubt you could formulate a precise, "no judgement required" policy. But by looking at intent and effect, and using good juegement, I believe you can achieve the effect you desire.

James S. Huggins


...




Replied - 01/05/2009
Yes. I suspect that you will need to convey your INTENT and rely on your GOOD JUDGEMENT for your screening. I seriously doubt you could formulate a precise, "no judgement required" policy. But by looking at intent and effect, and using good juegement, I believe you can achieve the effect you desire.

======================

That's pretty much what I had been doing. The result was that some people got upset because I deleted their sites from rings I had adopted. Some of them sent me some very nasty messages. Some probably also complained to WebRing. I got a rather imperious email from someone in WebRing. My biggest problem was that I was politely telling people why I was deleting them. I lost my temper ONCE. When I looked at ToS, I realized I had been completely in the right, ACCORDING TO ToS, to remove them. I even apologized in my deletion email. I'd like to see some kind of consensus that the discretion we were told we had would be honored. It is a serious thing to delete a site from a ring. I don't minimize it. But I have learned something: don't be specific. I felt it might be helpful to people, but if that's how they are going to react, I can't afford it.

I am modifying my criteria based in part on this conversation. Thank you.

From talking to other ring managers, I have learned that a lot of them, particularly those who have a lot of rings and are adopting, are VERY concerned about the same issues I am. WebRing could lose a lot of valuable people if they don't come to a consensus on some of this stuff.

The problem I had over the weekend is that three different WebRing people descended on me with demands that I do something with all my rings yesterday. I went bonkers! Two things: it doesn't work when more than one person manages someone (the reps should really handle all direct contact with the managers), and micromanaging people is a VERY bad idea. The fact that mismanaging a ring manager causes problems is not an indication that he is incapable of managing all his rings well.



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